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| | Nightmare Genesis | |
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Morph Boy Shop Keeper
Posts : 212 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 28
| Subject: Nightmare Genesis Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:30 am | |
| - Introduction:
Nightmare Genesis is the name of the game I propose. The name comes from the game’s main feature, Nightmare Mode, and the word Genesis, which means “beginning.” To an extent, it also describes the game’s story and theme, “the beginning of a nightmare.” A nightmare can be defined as an experience that first seems realistic, but then careens wildly into surrealism as time goes on. This is the ultimate description of the game and even the beginning of a match: it seems simple at first, but as time goes on, the experience becomes more fantastic and spectacular. The result is a deep 2D fighting game that combines experiences from various other fighting game series with its own unique mechanics.
- Punch and Kick Buttons:
Of course, what is a fighting game without a solid foundation? In fighting games, the foundation that makes everything work is not the characters or gimmicks, but a combination of button layout and game engine. The first aspect, the button layout, follows the philosophy that the name lays down. First, the core of the fighting experience, the Punch and Kick buttons. While punches and kicks are only given one button each, these buttons partially take inspiration from Dead or Alive in that each button has a multitude of attacks depending on directional input. However, these attacks are mapped out like a condensed Tekken move set. Assuming that the player is facing right, pressing the Punch button with no directional input at all gives you a Standing Jab, or Standing Light Punch. Pressing the Punch button with a “tilt” directional input to the right will give you a Standing Tilt Punch, or Standing Medium Punch. Pressing the Punch button with a “smash” directional input to the right will give you a Standing Smash Punch, or Standing Heavy Punch. The same can be done with the same inputs but angled upwards (Up Jab, Up Tilt Punch and Up Smash Punch) and downwards (Down Jab, Down Tilt Punch, and Down Smash Punch, otherwise known as Crouching Attacks), and all of the above attacks can be implemented with the kicks as well (Standing Light, Tilt, and Smash Kicks; Crouching Light, Tilt, and Smash Kicks; and Up Light, Tilt, and Smash Kicks). Finally, punches and kicks can be performed in the air, for a total of six mid-air standard attacks. Using each of these attacks wisely can allow the player to execute powerful target combos, or combos with only normal attacks.
- Grab Button:
The next button in play is the Grab Button, which allows characters to grab opponents and throw them in any direction. These are basic throws, and therefore usually do not have any special properties. There are a total of four throws that can be executed by the grab button: Forward Throw, Back Throw, Up Throw, and Down Throw. Unlike its Smash counterpart, where this button gets its origins, holding a character in place and pummeling them is not normally available to combatants; a directional input must be made when throwing, or else it will default to a Forward Throw. Throws can always be “teched” by executing the same throw command as soon as you are grabbed. This is made easier if the opponent simply presses the Grab button, so all that the victim has to do is press the Grab Button as well.
- Special and Toggle Buttons:
The next two buttons go together like bread and butter. The first button, the Special button, allows you to execute four special moves depending on directional input. The format is borrowed from the Super Smash Bros. series: Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, and Down Special are the four special moves that each character has access to. However, each attack has multiple versions of itself, and that is where the Toggle Button comes into play. The Toggle button is used to “toggle” which version of the special is used. It cycles from Light to Medium to Heavy and back to Light again, with Light being the default at the beginning of each match. If the toggle button is held, the next special move used will use meter (if it’s there), otherwise known as an EX move. Depending on the character, the toggle button could make minor or major differences in the special move.
- Taunt Button and Special Abilities:
Finally, there is one final button used in gameplay: the Taunt Button. Every character has a taunt that can be performed with this button, but unlike the Street Fighter 3 series, where this concept comes from, every single taunt in the game has a special effect that is granted to the player. Some effects are as small as a defensive buff that can be applied multiple times, or as large as an entire change in the character’s special move layout. There is also a similar feature in the game called a Special Ability that is worth mentioning here. Like Taunts, these Special Abilities grant each character a certain effect in battle, but unlike Taunts, they’re passive, which means that they’re engaged throughout the match. It functions more to distinguish characters further from each other than grant yourself an unsportsmanlike buff.
- Health, Damage, and Type System:
Health and damage play a unique role in this game. Divisions in health are not determined by differences in body size between normal characters, but rather, between normal characters and their superior Nightmare counterparts. All normal characters have the same amount of health as each other, but the damage output for attacks are different. Normal physical attacks generally do uniform and ordinary damage. Projectiles are the weakest of the special move types due to their long range, but not by much. Grabs do excellent damage, but their pitiful range and difficulty of use makes them hard to fit in your playstyle. Melee special moves are balanced in the middle, blending damage with versatility. However, Melee attacks are also the easiest to block and counter. There is also a further Rock-Paper-Scissors element to the Melee, Projectile, and Grapple types when a character is in Nightmare form. Melee attacks deal more damage to Projectile types, Projectile attacks deal more damage to Grapple types, and Grab attacks deal more damage to Melee attacks. Please note that standard punches, kicks, and grabs are not part of this system and exist as a separate, impartial form of attacking.
- Engine:
The engine in this game is unique, because it is actually masked in normal gameplay. In the hands of a normal character, the engine functions like a fusion between the Street Fighter and Tekken engine concepts. However, most characters don’t have access to many of the higher functions of the engine, such as OTGs, ground bounces, wall bounces, extended aerial combos, etc. The true engine is very offensive and allows for a lot of mobility for the characters, but only characters in Nightmare form can enjoy its full potential. The engine is masked by simply not giving characters the ability to utilize its functions. In all forms, however, the engine encourages multiple play-styles from diverse fighting game backgrounds. Summarized, it has the capacity of the 2D Marvel vs. Capcom engines, but suppressed and with other mechanics built in.
- Intro to Meter:
A familiar concept in fighting games, Nightmare Genesis features the meter system so commonly found in fighters like Street Fighter, but bent to its own style. Every normal character has a single meter divided into three equal bars. At its purist form, one bar executes EX moves and each character’s counter move and three bars executes a Super Move. However, meter use for each character can vary depending on a character’s Special Ability or Taunt. Such specifications can be identified in each character’s move set.
- Nightmare Mode:
Meter’s most prominent use in this game is what makes this game unique: Nightmare Mode. Every character in the game can transform into a more powerful version of themselves, who differ radically in terms of aesthetics and play-styles. Differences between characters are much more exaggerated. The meter system changes to just one, whole bar, and meter use also changes. EX moves and counters can now be used free of charge, and they have access to not one, but two new super moves: a Counter-Super and a Nightmare Finisher. Finally, most characters now have nearly-unbridled access to the engine’s full potential. Nightmare Mode is not the end-all mechanic in this game; nay, it has notable weaknesses that coincide with its strengths. The first and easily the most significant downside is how you access Nightmare Mode: losing a round with full meter. Yes, this gigantic character overhaul is a glorious comeback mechanic. If a player plans to use Nightmare Mode to defeat an opponent with superior skill, he must abstain from using meter and fill it to full capacity in order to reap all of its benefits. However, this is not the extent of the weaknesses. EX Moves and counters are slightly nerfed in almost every way to counterbalance their now-free status. If the player is hit by a move that he is weak against, then he will take increased damage. What makes matters worse is that attacks that they are weak against now always have priority over all of their attacks, except their counter moves. Their new super moves (Counter-Super and Nightmare Finisher) not only require continued button and directional inputs to reach maximum damage, but also end the transformation and return the player to normal once they’re done (however, there is no penalty for not connecting the move at all). Now that we’re done with the weaknesses, let’s move on to its great strengths. Nightmare characters are all-around better than their normal counterparts. EX moves and counters can now be used at any time, though they’re more defensive weapons now because of their nerfs. The biggest improvement is they can now use the game’s engine to its full potential. Players in their Nightmare form have more lenient move cancelling, and some of their normals gain special properties, such as ground bouncing, wall bouncing, and off-the-ground attacks. This, combined with their improved special moves and special cancelling, grants all characters in Nightmare form the tools they need to defeat their opponent in style. Overall, Nightmare Mode can be seen as an amplification of each character; strengths and weaknesses alike are boosted and made more readily apparent. It is up to the player to use Nightmare Mode wisely.
- Game Modes:
Initial game modes include your standard VS. Mode, an Arcade Mode, which follows a seven-battle story for each character, and two Training Modes, one which lets you practice freely, and the other complete with its own tutorial. Unlockable modes include a full-fledged Story Mode that is unlocked after each starter character’s story mode is completed. It switches your character for each battle as it reveals the mystery of how the Nightmare came to be. Thrown in for good measure is Nightmare Mode, a type of battle mode that has all characters in their Nightmare forms from the start of the match until the end, plus removing all effects that would cause a player to return to normal.
- Character Roster and Final Summarization:
Speaking of the characters, the roster in this game is relatively small for a modern fighting game. At this point in conception, the roster has a total of twelve initial characters, three per type. In addition to that, four boss characters can also be unlocked for use in standard gameplay. These sixteen characters, not counting each and every character’s Nightmare form, already have designs and play-styles more or less in place, but there is room for additional characters to be conceived and added in at any time. To summarize, Nightmare Genesis is a metaphorical onion of a fighting game. At first glance, it appears to be a Super Smash Bros. concept interpreted as a standard 2D fighter. As you peel away the layers as you play more and more, the depth of the mechanics and intricacies of each character just beneath the surface begin to emerge. The prominent presence of the Nightmare calls for both wise meter consumption and strategic thinking. The beauty, though, lies in the endless additions that can be made to the game that can customize and flesh out the experience further. Join me in unraveling the mystery of the Nightmare.
There is room for refinement, of course, and the story is still to become written word. Tell me what you guys think. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:43 am | |
| bfhewbwehfnwkj
Alright so, I've looked over this.
I'll be shooting an input in a few days. | |
| | | SomebodyUDon'tKnow Shop Keeper
Posts : 274 Join date : 2011-09-13
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:56 am | |
| I see elements of MvC and Street Fighter x Tekken here. The Nightmare Mode seems to mimic Pandora mode from SFxT. Honestly, that seems really good. I don't see the 'jump in and play' aspect that we discussed, but it seems like a game that would be very difficult to master, and difficult to play at all. I roster that small is a good idea for an initial game, and the game me and my mates are organizing is following a 16 character limit as well.
From what I see, there are 4 attack buttons (5 if you count Toggle). How are 'Specials' to be executed (eg Hadouken, Kikouken)? A swish of the movement buttons would be hard to accomplish. Trust me, I've tried. | |
| | | Morph Boy Shop Keeper
Posts : 212 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 28
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:32 pm | |
| The normal buttons are supposed chain together like Tekken moves, but because of the 2D environment, it, in theory, should work like a slightly modified Street Fighter layout. As for the special moves and the the grab button, those are entirely inspired by Smash Bros. in both design and execution (as well as the execution of normal moves). The toggle button is only there because of the lack of proper Light, Medium, and Heavy attack buttons and to facilitate multiple versions of the same special move, like in Street Fighter. If I were to sum up the control style, it would be a Street Fighter foundation with heavy Smash overtones. In Nightmare Mode, the combo system would be extended to one found in the original MvC. Nightmare Mode is actually not at all inspired by Pandora. Pandora Mode is a timed upgrade with infinite meter that ends the match in 8 seconds or less. Nightmare Mode sacrifices all meter upon losing a round to grant the player full access to the game's engine, plus some strengths and weaknesses. The hope is that it's supposed to be easy to pick up, depending on if it's executed properly. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:02 pm | |
| You'll be pleased to know, from what I've concluded (and this will be beneficial to you guys and myself):
Now in theory this looks good on paper, but I'm already wondering how it would work out when all the pieces are put together. I like that you're trying to keep it simple so that people may not be at all discouraged to try out the game (got to keep those guys interested and not button mashn' haha).
With my application to visualization, I can see this being played out in a successful fashion.
Button layout in my head >
ABC > Punch Kick Grab DEF > Projectile Toggle Taunt
At least, I would imagine that would be a clean setup.
I hold my index, middle and ring finger on ABC and my thumb on D. I'm pretty versatile so I can flip down and up again when the time comes to it, but I need your feedback on that setup.
There's something I'd like to take time in informing you about, but it would require another post which I'm making at this time. | |
| | | SomebodyUDon'tKnow Shop Keeper
Posts : 274 Join date : 2011-09-13
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:45 pm | |
| Wait, to do a successful combo in most fighting games, you must do a combination of light-medium-heavy attacks. In this game, the toggle button will be clicked very wildly, which isn't very good. Cycling like light-medium-light-heavy-medium won't be easy, and that itself will require 8 clicks. 8 clicks for one combo. The toggle button is going to be hard to use in combos. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:48 am | |
| - SomebodyUDon'tKnow wrote:
- Wait, to do a successful combo in most fighting games, you must do a combination of light-medium-heavy attacks. In this game, the toggle button will be clicked very wildly, which isn't very good. Cycling like light-medium-light-heavy-medium won't be easy, and that itself will require 8 clicks. 8 clicks for one combo.
The toggle button is going to be hard to use in combos. Well, that's part of what I'm going to discuss about. A bit of some other stuff too down the road. | |
| | | Morph Boy Shop Keeper
Posts : 212 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 28
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:42 am | |
| - Morph Boy wrote:
- The Toggle button is used to “toggle” which version of the special is used.
As the quote says, the toggle button does not affect normal attacks. It only affects the special moves (and some supers and counters, depending on the character), never the normal attacks. To put it simply (I don't know how I failed to post the connection), think of the attack button in Smash Bros, but split up into two buttons. That's why I called Medium attacks "tilts" and Heavy attacks "smashes." Sorry for not clarifying. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:27 am | |
| Posting from school to inform you I'm prepping up a few proposals and some clarification to a few things you've mentioned will be met a little later today. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:47 am | |
| Alright, this is going to be divided in a total of three posts.
My first post right after this one will discuss the clarifications of a few matters. The second post will discuss improvements that I see fit to a lot of the ideas presented in the OP. The third post will be any last revisions, final comments and a personal grade (yeah, personal grade seems a bit necessary imo) which will be out of 10 like they do in Game Informer and whatnot.
More to come later. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:35 pm | |
| Sorry Morph, but I'm sending it in today because of this hurricane that's going to hit in two days. | |
| | | Morph Boy Shop Keeper
Posts : 212 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 28
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:11 pm | |
| | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:01 am | |
| - Red wrote:
- Whelp, that was slightly delayed.
I'll make this rather quick:
The combination of application of DoA and Tekken are good examples, but I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing how it would appeal to a 2D perspective or environment, so to speak. There was a part I happened to be reading over where I thought you somehow implied that Tekken had a so called linking system. The linking system you're thinking of is not a literal linking system since it only has one minor rule or justification;
For example, Street Fighter and KoF are highly compared to one another because of linking, but since Street Fighter is the base fundamental for traditional fighting games, it doesn't include anything that would make it dynamically exceed that or excessively exceed that as well. The point being slightly tweaked, I'm trying to say that they both involve making open hitboxes viable by using links.
These "links" are moves used to make opportunity for other moves to be used, hence the term linking.
King of Fighters relies slightly more on weak links than Street Fighter, but Street Fighter has links following something like L > M > H rather than KoF that has like, A (lp) > A > A > A > or C (lk) > C > C > C and so forth.
The application and comparison of the two are probably my best example of what I found slightly inaccurate with what you were intending to go with.
Now with Tekken, this is the same case, however combos are legitimately extended on what moves you use in coordination with which.
Earlier Tekken games had short, quick and highly effective combos which deemed itself a bit overpowered for its own stability, hence why they created the bound and aerial combo (juggle) system opposed to what DoA's route took.
Overall, it balanced the aspect of the game; however the law of Tekken applies that of KoF and Street Fighter, however interviewers and even the producer, Harada, have mentioned that SF is probably the biggest influence to the series alone.
Second post is coming a bit soon. Just re-posting. | |
| | | Reshi123 Traveler
Posts : 4 Join date : 2012-11-08
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:24 pm | |
| hmm that is very interesting red | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:57 pm | |
| - Reshi123 wrote:
- hmm that is very interesting red
Well, I don't just sit around playing fighting games without doing some research first, lol. I wish I could make a living out of it, though... | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:53 pm | |
| Going to wrap this up in the next few hours. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:43 pm | |
| FUCKING CHROME ADSDADADASDASDASDSADSADSADSADSADSASADSASADASDSDASDA
Going to hurry up and redo all of my points.
THERE WILL BE A PART TWO ON ACCOUNT OF MY SILLY CASUALTIES.
2nd POST: PART 1 ~
IMPROVEMENTS.
~ I see that as well as the ideas may be, their isn't much focus wrapped around them to combine into one solo aspect. The way most fighters work, is that they combine certain aspects of mechanics to flow with the essential gameplay.
For my best example, we'll dip a bit into Tekken's performance on account that I'm a frequent Tag 2 player.
The success behind Tekken's performance (gameplay aspects) relies on three important factors:
3D Enviroment Motion Depth Attack Buttons
All three of these factors contribute to the depth of the game, including the mass amount of inputs available. For the last two, I'm willing to list the tools we, the players work with.
Walk, Backup, Sidestep (Left), Sidestep(Right), Jumpback (Double Tap Back), Run (Double Tap Forward), Sidetep Followup Walk, Special Step, Crouch (ext forward and backward) and Jump.
All of these motions contribute to the attacks in the game.
Now for our attack buttons, you have 1, 2, 3, 4. (Low Punch, Heavy Punch, Low Kick, Heavy Kick)
You have inputs that follow up based on tapping the same button twice and then another. Usually, the buttons change to give characters another option of mixup or variety to a particular command, giving a different ending each time. This contributes to the metagame on account of blocking which is also different than traditional fighting games.
*Authors note: You elaborated on some motion coordination to attacks, but I can't seriously put my mind in the right place without some hypothetical gameplay.
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| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:16 pm | |
| Literally finishing this up right now. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:29 pm | |
| I've literally decided to make this a series of posts rather than just a part 2.
Expect a live update, 12 AM ET. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:34 am | |
| Postponed for another hour. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:20 am | |
| Uh, going to sum up the other issues, I'm running out of time today.
On the subject of grabs being useful, if they're used by grapplers, it would provide new issues for us to sort out with.
I'm making something to potentially bring the ideas together into something idealistically solid. Nothing too complicated, but enough to make the case come out clear. | |
| | | Red Admin
Posts : 267 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 27 Location : Teh forum.
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:04 am | |
| Alright, revising some stuff.
Please be patient. | |
| | | Morph Boy Shop Keeper
Posts : 212 Join date : 2011-09-01 Age : 28
| Subject: Re: Nightmare Genesis Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:42 am | |
| Take your time. I'm in no hurry. | |
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