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Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Post 2 - Mini Updates Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:50 pm | |
| Instead of posting one really huge eyesore for everyone to read, I'll just update with minor segments throughout the week. One's actually coming up even as we speak. ~Intro [12-13-11] | Spoiler: | | | *SMASH Fight Genesis was a named formed by I, for it meant a revolution in the fighting genre by taking bits and ideas from other fighting engines and implementing them into a compacted engine with some feeling for SMASH physics. Now, one can only imagine how such could possibly work, considering the on-going controversy of how many people even consider SMASH an actual part of the main fighting genre. The way SMASH was intentionally designed, the ability to take away or add elements to the game is makes the series known for what it stands for today; basically, a game that has no right or wrong way to play. The freedom that is given is highly overlooked, of course I could explain reasonable points from both sides of this stand-still debate, but alas, I'm leading astray from the true subject at hand. |
~Onward: An overview comparison of Combo Mechanics [12-16-11]
| Spoiler: | | | A fighting game's definition of a combo (short for combination) is a set of actions performed in a sequence, usually with timing limitations of some kind. The average fighter and SMASH both apply to the meaning, but are taken at different levels of understanding. The typical fighter is on a 2-D plane, and you are programmed to ALWAYS face the direction of where your opponent currently is, etc. Like so, with these inputs with different levels of attack that add variety. SMASH games on the other hand, take as much technical skill to do really effective things to really shine one's swagger. For example, please watch this. It may take a few times to really absorb the depth of those inputs. But essentially, the difficulty to play one or the other is about the same, if not more. Notice a majority of that wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for semi-platforms and lag-cancelling? Those AT's (general) is what made SMASH a depth game worth playing on the side of a competitive player (of course, I'm referring to the series in general, but more of 64 and Melee; Brawl was lacking that drive that made it enjoyable to thrash about a murder your opponents). I enjoy the simplicity of the directional input system, but that may have to be adjusted in order for it to fit the system I have prepped for this game. So to keep everyone's attention with this rather long informative paragraph, I'll ask a simple question.
What would a directional input style game work like if it were to run two-type attack button system? I'll elaborate later about that. |
~Continuous~: Continuing onward from our last discussion and the Two-Type Attack System [intro] (Stage Legality issues included) [12-28-11]
| Spoiler: | | | As we continue on, I would like to apologize for the forgetfulness of my mind. No matter, let's go on; I had forgotten to mention that weight class plays a key feature in SMASH more than any other game I've seen to date. It affects the damage dealt ratio and pretty much anything else relating to attacks and personal stats. Fighting games (or at least the ones seen around today) do not focus or even consider the aspect though do minor things to make that rather noticeable. So who would be a good example of a character with heavy weight in which attacks/combos vary? I'd like to take a moment and study Fox MCcloud with you all today (please keep in mind that I will be using Melee's system of weight class, considering since it is most distinguishable than that of Brawl). Fox, despite his heavy weight, has a good combo game revolving around him. He's way heavier than Falco ad has the better vertical recovery of the two and is probably the most rewarding of the two as well as the most difficult of the two to use effectively. His weight does make him a combo magnet, but that also ensures of his survival on the battle field. That's pretty much a basic analysis of his central metagame, and his playstyle background in general. I'm pretty sure you're also wondering how stage legality is going to work too? To be honest, eliminating what made SMASH bros it wasn't all too easy. I had some central idea of how it was going to work in a sense where it would be more interesting for the competitive player. Not in any relation to SMASH, but I'm pretty sure some of you have played Jump Ultimate Stars maybe? The stage legality works rather different in that game than SMASH. The most played on stage for that game (online at the very least) was probably the Dark Dojo. Rather poor image but read the notes; that's probably the best you can do for those of you who haven't played the actual game. (or you could look up some competitive fights of the game; they do nothing but that stage). I do enjoy the JUS style stage layout. Not much interference can received from this stage, with its flat plane all around except the flaw of that platform that you see that's supposed to be in the corner of the stage. That was pretty much the only part of the stage itself that promoted camping. Other than that, it was pretty much legit all around. Of course we don't have to be all completely bland, flat stage styled game. Platforms can change the outcome of match ups and legality too, but for now I'm more focused with the flat look. Flat stages in SSB series give everyone a superior chance to make their attacks worth the while (this is coming from the perspective of a Ness mainer, so please keep that also in mind). But as shown in the video above, platform styled stages like the battle field could make things interesting for the players involved. If possible, I would like to see in the future JUS styled layout stages with good eye backgrounds that aren't bland but do not take to much eye away from the battle at hand. It could work, but the perspective and other stuff asociated with stage making would also have to be adjusted. Now for what I promised in my last post, a basic intro explanation of the two-type attack system.
Two-Type Attack System, otherwise abbreviated for future reference as TTAS (lolTAS) is an attack system that will further dip in the essentials in the basic aspects of attacking methods. Like Smash Brothers a special button will be retained within the system, but is not referenced in the TTAS, it will be mentioned. TTAS' movelist was inspired by the simplicity and creativity the developers for SMASH brothers and its ingenious Attack Button. Ever watch any of those flashy combo videos that display excellent usage of that? If not, I'm not going to post anything of the sort; you're going to have to find some good ones on your own. I would elaborate on the movelist part itself, but I want to leave that for another segment in continuation to this. There is one thing I want to clarify; a "combo" is Nintendo's answer to what they thought/believed was an actual combo in SMASH. I doubt they had any idea of its actual potential in being looked over as a competitive game. Short and said well; combos vary, and have completely different meaning, not only that but variety as well. Next segment, I'll elaborate more on the Two-Type Attack System. Expect some more stuff soon. |
Items~: A competitive perspective on items in Smash Brothers [1-9-12]
| Spoiler: | | | Real simply put; here. This pretty much denies items from ever appearing in SFG due to reasons explained in the video above. |
SFG Mechnaic Mania - The possibility of retaining Final Smashes?
| Spoiler: | | | Well, what I was saying in the past is still remaining true; the reason why Final Smashes are banned in Brawl is due to that massive luck factor of a traveling sphere the could be summoned from a completely random point and can travel in its own influence. Fan games have tried to eliminate such factor (looking at Project Crusade here, actually) and have failed miserably. In Crusade's attempt at the issue, the game itself has its own implemented combo counter issuing how many hits that the player was able to perform (which is actually pretty stupid since a lot of things present are lacking in their installments and the fact that some characters had combos exceeding two hits). If such a counter were to be used, everyone in the roster should have legitimate combo strings varying on who they are and who they're fighting (and believe me, that sounds a lot like a smash brothers game). That's the spirit of competitively in Smash Brothers; we play it this way because its intriguing and we'll never know what we'll find (plus Hadou and I always exclaim how the weight classes make the combo stings and approaches rather different than the average fighter, considering that damage% is calculated very differently). I want to somehow implement that within the roots of this game as well so it adds onto the interesting effects and diversity. Furthermore, there is actually a way to keep Final Smashes without actually removing them. Even without the Smash Ball and or with any other mechanism, Final Smashes will remain to be banned because of:
~Average Stages like Battlefield or Final Destination have smaller blast zones and can deal a KO a lot faster than those of banned stages; Final Smashes enhance this rather by at least double varying on what the Final Smash even does. Note that the examples given here are stages that are determined legal by tournament and backroom officials.
~Most deal instant KOs or even double the knockback and combining damage to the % meter in which cases outclasses the competitive play and the damn purpose of how to kill someone in Smash, legitimately and respectively.
~Smash has always been legit on customization and the flexibility of controls. Because of some Final Smashes such as let's say, Super Sonic or Snake's RPG scope out really throw the competitive sense in the trash. Star KOs can be achieved a lot faster than without the efforts of the Smash Ball.
Nearly all of these issues have been directed on the flexibility and the knockback, so my suggestion to fixing Final Smashes so that they are suitable for competitive use:
~Highly suggesting a cutback on knockback and flexibility; Of course, that really wouldn't fit the spirit of Smash either, however with the implementation of an HP Meter, that could potentially be possible. Of course I'm still tinkering the idea so it isn't exactly finalized yet. If this were to work, we might actually see some cool stuff later on in the future. |
~SFG Mechanic Change: Jeezus Creezus, that spotdodging is a piss-off. [?-?-?]
| Spoiler: | | | Well, I was playing a bit of smash with my crew on P:K (Project: Kero) and I've come to realize that spotdodging really ruins the accuracy focus of Smash Brothers. Like for example, let's say your character isn't good at trading hits. What I mean is that if an opponent were to be in your face, close enough for a grab at least, you wouldn't be able to do jackshit if the guy in front of you was spotdodging like a wooper. So more than likely, I'll have to adjust the mechanic of spotdodging. Hadou asked me if adding a limitation via bar would help, but I said to hold off on a thought like that; I haven't even concluded the layout of the battlefield and where everything regarding your character in a match would be without cluttering the screen. The next update should break down on aesthetics, as well as modes in this game and how they could work. |
_____________________________________ Final Update: Coming to a closure! [3-17-12]
Firstly, I'd like to break this up into new sub sections, etc. The reason for is that I want to cover many things and I won't be able to do such and keep an audience if the paragraphs are too much to handle. I want to kind of steer the last bit here with you all so we can finally get some work done. Aesthetics General~ - Spriting Style
| Spoiler: | | | Well, something pinged up.
How would you all favor this? |
- Layout Visuals
- Music Composition
- Ease of Access
- Roster
| Spoiler: | | | The roster details are currently unknown at this time. I'm pretty sure the only people who know what's in the roster right now are the story board directors. It'll be revealed piece by piece. |
___________________________ The Rules of the Game [3-21-12]
| Spoiler: | | | That idea I mentioned of a post ahead of this was simply finishing the establishment of the rules of the game. Well much like other fighters, this one will proceed and eliminating and reducing the other opponent's HP%, which would soon proceed in a K.O. I had no problem establishing that, but in methods of how to do this. In a way, it seems like I'm derailing to a "How to Play" type scenario, but I needed to at least confirm the objective before explaining the multiple ways you can do this here in SFG. The following will consist of ways to perform this. |
1. Eliminate the opponent's HP by using basic moves.
| Spoiler: | | | - SFG runs on a hybrid system, a combination of an HP Meter in games so to speak like Street Fighter, and a Damage Meter/% similar to that of Smash Brothers. The ingenious behind this system is more than just adding one more thing that Smash lacks... there's more to it. The damage dealt in SFG does both to their respective meters. Now this is where it gets really messy. A lot of people would begin to question if combining the two would be theoretically impossible, considering that simple stuff like hitstun and blockstun are calculated differently, but they're pretty much the same thing in both respective games. I believe the thing that would begin to confuse people is if we were to apply both terms to this. Well, that shouldn't be TOO much of a problem. As stated before, moves granted to you in your movelist will deal both to both. But in order for that to be somewhat balanced, stage locations may have to slightly increase by at least 7-10%. Knockback will be calculated much like it is in Smash Brothers Melee and the inclusion of some techniques from both worlds would certainly boost the game's self-esteem. Now this is where it gets tricky; remember when I had discussed with some of you about the inclusion of a supermove/finalsmash/whateveryou'dliketocallthat? Well, in a hybrid system, I could honestly see them being used more in competitive play. However, if it were to work, I would strictly lock it to HP Meter only (and if necessary, low knockback in some cases). The reason behind that was explained in the post respectively about the subject and if you want more resource and base with it, I advise you to go back and check with it. |
2. Eliminate the opponent's HP with the use of a Magic Series.
| Spoiler: | | | - I don't think I covered a lot on Magic Series... no? Hell, I probably didn't confirm the looks of the movelist. The movelist itself is still pending, but it should mirror some effects from Smash Brothers.
_Input Commands -SPECIAL COMMANDS (All fighting games usually have these) - - - (How many will vary on the moveset creator, etc) Movelist (A) - Jab > Finishing Sequence - A-UP - A-SIDE - A-DOWN - A-UP SIMU - A-DOWN SIMU - A()N-AIR - A()F-AIR - A()B-AIR - A()U-AIR - A()D-AIR
Movelist (B) - Jab > Finishing Sequence - B-UP - B-SIDE - B DOWN - B-UP SIMU - B-SIDE SIMU - B-DOWN SIMU - B()N-AIR - B()F-AIR - B()B-AIR - B()U-AIR - B()D-AIR
SPECIAL (C) (N/NSM) SPECIAL (S/SSM) SPECIAL (U/USM) SPECIAL (D/DSM) SPECIAL
GUARD (D) (D) + (A) = GUARD > GRAB (D) + (B) = BLOW BACK ATTACK (D) + DOWN = SPOT DODGE (D) + LEFT/RIGHT = EVASIVE ROLL (D) + UP = GUARD CANCELLED JUMP (D) + AIR = AIR DODGE (DIRECTIONS ACTIVATION READY > WAVE-DASH)
GRAB (E) (This is essentially similar to other inputs except quicker grabbing (more punishable upon missing) and the ability to access air throwing) (E) + GROUND = GRAB (E) + TURN (GROUND being applied) = PIVOT GRAB (E) + AIR = AERIAL THROW/AERIAL SHORTCUT A/B/HYBRID/CUSTOM (E) + FORWARD = FORWARD THROW (E) + BACK = BACK THROW (E) + DOWN = DOWN THROW (E) + UP = UP THROW (E) + (E) = PUMMEL
SHORTCUT MENU (F) (This is a specific button-type access menu that allows the uses of the following) - Attack (A) - Attack (B) - Specials (C) - Guard (D) - Grab (E) (However, if this is a stick access command, the results would expand past this) - A SIMUS/ AERIALS - B SIMUS/ AERIALS etc, etc.
Last but not least is a taunt button. It'll probably be initiated by a command everyone shares but I'm not too worried about that at the moment.
Now that the lot of that is finished, you're probably wondering how the Magic Series would work? Well I'd normally be formal enough to draw a diagram, but I'm on a tight schedule here so I'll make this snappy.
- A > B > C - A > C > B - B > C > A - C > A > B ~ A few rules to be noted: = As you can see, C can be used anytime within the Series, though B > A is never able to happen anywhere in this. = Where C is placed in each, D will share the same cancel-able properties/allowing more access to more properties. = Jump Cancelling a input command will be possible within any part of the string; this allows further creativity, etc. = For a more in depth look at the system, I could do something like this as an example:
(A) Finishing Sequence (Cancel last hit with crouch) > (A) Jab > Finishing Sequence > A-SIDE SIMU (Cancel Second Hit) > (B) B-UP > Jump > A()D-AIR > B()N-AIR
Of course there's no real way to describe the aesthetics unless I were to use a character example, but if you need a more in-depth example, just say it. *This is still being edited as time goes by so be patient. |
3. Eliminate the opponent's HP via Ring Out
| Spoiler: | | | Of course this can be edited with the rules feature of the game via stock distribution, but in SFG, if you're RO'd, you're finished; no exceptions. |
Last edited by Red on Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:13 pm; edited 31 times in total |
|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:34 pm | |
| Update: Added a minor intro.
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|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:35 pm | |
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|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:49 pm | |
| Expect something on the two-type system tomorrow. |
|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:56 pm | |
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|  | | Shih-Na Traveler

Posts: 204 Join date: 2011-09-13
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:26 am | |
| I see we're going all out on this game. Sugoi! I think that this game, when finished (probably even before it's finished), will be at least three times better than SSF2. |
|  | | Spoony Bard Traveler

Posts: 20 Join date: 2011-09-16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:30 pm | |
| | Shih-Na wrote: | | will be at least three times better than SSF2. |
Although I like our community, and the fact that we're making our own game, I still can say that will most likely not happen.
EDIT: Also, that whole 'finished' thing. Good luck with that. I'll start helping after we get that style goin'. No point in working spritework if it's gonna change relatively soon anyway. |
|  | | Shih-Na Traveler

Posts: 204 Join date: 2011-09-13
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:32 pm | |
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|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:16 am | |
| | Shih-Na wrote: | | I see we're going all out on this game. Sugoi! I think that this game, when finished (probably even before it's finished), will be at least three times better than SSF2. | A little late to judge that considering we're still on the establishment part, lol. Although in a sense of my own personal feeling, SSF2, despite the number of its progress has a long way to go before becoming better in its own profession, much like ours.
| Spoony Bard wrote: | | Shih-Na wrote: | | will be at least three times better than SSF2. |
Although I like our community, and the fact that we're making our own game, I still can say that will most likely not happen.
EDIT: Also, that whole 'finished' thing. Good luck with that. I'll start helping after we get that style goin'. No point in working spritework if it's gonna change relatively soon anyway. | Positive comments from you, (and I seem to notice that you must really enjoy John Jameson laughing). That's why I wasn't strict on the spriting thing; it'd be really pointless to work on sprites if we were going on a specific style from the start. I wanted to do that part first before getting sprites to use for the first demo so it isn't much as an eyesore as when Crusade first came out, but as well as style, I wanted the gameplay to be equal on those levels as well.
Next issue I'd like to attend to is the whole legality thing with items. I don't think I've addressed the issue with items in SMASH (in the terms of a competitive player), but I wanted to make a brief comment on that before I'd continue with the TTAS explanation.
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|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:41 pm | |
| Happy New Year guys, expect something up again later on today, if not then tomorrow. |
|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:46 pm | |
| Damn, this subject is taking longer to put together than I expected. I should get this done by tomorrow morning at the very least, around maybe 4am or before that. I'm on the East Coast, so that'll be EST. |
|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:56 pm | |
| And this is probably the last time I'll ever put a date up for any reason.
Also, I wanted to make this brief since school has been a pain in the ass with Final Exams. Update. |
|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:05 pm | |
| If I survive Hell of the Weeks, I'll update regarding the TTAS system, minor roster info and some other stuff you guys may like. |
|  | | Shih-Na Traveler

Posts: 204 Join date: 2011-09-13
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:00 am | |
| I like how this game is coming along. |
|  | | Red Admin

Posts: 181 Join date: 2011-09-01 Age: 16
 | Subject: Re: Post 2 - Mini Updates Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:33 pm | |
| I'm in a pretty decent mood.
Expect something soon. |
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